Watchmen, Chapter 6: Socratic Circle



Instructions: 
Audience members: in the comments section of this post, make thoughtful observations about the conversation taking place in the "fishbowl."  Good observations will do the following:
  1. Identify when you agree/disagree with observations and specifically state why (ASRApt Specific Reference).  
  2. Observe what specific group members did that helped to 
    1. "propel" conversation forward, 
    2. respond to their group members, 
    3. and provide thoughtful observations.

Fishbowl members: students who do well in the "fishbowl" will do the following:

  1. Come to discussion prepared, having read and researched materials beforehand.
  2. Work with peers to promote a civil, democratic discussion, set clear goals, and establish individual roles. 
  3. Propel conversations forward by posing and asking questions that probe reasoning and ask for evidence. 
  4. Respond thoughtful to diverse perspectives, synthesize (combine) comments, claims, and evidence, resolve contradictions, and investigate meaning. 

Comments

  1. Hannah begins the conversation with a question

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  2. Katherine gives a topic to start off

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  3. Hannah begins by asking what the first topic of discussion should be.

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  4. Hannah starts by asking where the group wants to start within the chapter.

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  5. Katherine suggests a starting point, with Rorschach’s backstory. Katherine remarks that there is no love for her son, and that she didn’t even want him to exist in the first place.

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  6. Mari builds off of Katherine's expla

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  7. Katherine talks about the specific details of Rorschach's past.

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  8. Katherine mentions there was no love in the relationship.

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  9. Mari talks about how this tragic backstory affects how he reacts to people making fun of/belittling him.

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  10. Annie and Mari bring up the police reports

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  11. Annie brings in an interesting point

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  12. Hannah remarks that he is hardened to violence, and he gets information through torture and murder.

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  13. Katherine starts by giving a brief summary of the beginning of the chapter, giving others the chance to jump in and voice their opinions.

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  14. Noah mentions that he has many enemies, but that they ignore that he could’ve possibly been framed.

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  15. There's talk about why the framing is uninvestigated.

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  16. The group discusses the police and their assumption that Rorschach killed Moloch, and why they assume that

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  17. The group talks about what caused Rorschach to be the way he is.

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  18. Noah brings in an interesting perspective

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  19. The group discusses the police and their assumption that Rorschach killed Moloch, and why they assume that

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  20. Killing the dogs.
    Mari brings up that not being able to save the girl was probably the trigger

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  21. Mari mentions that the relationship between the doctor and Rorschach is interesting, because it’s the most important case of his career, and he’s the only one who has truly talked to Rorschach in person. Later, he also wants to help Rorschach.

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  22. Annie brings up the quote at the end of the chapter

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  23. Annie changed the topics with a nice transition

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  24. Mari and Annie build off of each other.

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  25. Emilie changes the topic so she can speak

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  26. Emilie talks about how they brought in real life crime cases into the book and how it explained the creation of Rorschach’s mask!

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  27. Emilie is brought into the conversation. She mentions the tying in of Katie which is cool.

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  28. Emilie is able to add to the discussion by changing the topic.

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  29. There's a pause and Annie jumps in. Mari brings in how the psychoanalyst

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  30. Catherine begins with an open topic (lack of love)
    Mari switches to another topic, gives opinion, listens to others, then replies
    The conversation circles around one main topic
    Catherine asks Emilie a question to bring her voice into the conversation

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  31. Hannah built on Annie's original comment

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  32. The group moves on to establish what they have perceived and have developed opinions on the interactions between Rorschach and the doctor.

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  33. Hannah brings up the split. Why is the split such a big thing?

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  34. Hannah refers to Rorschach as "Rorschachy"

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  35. Hannah talks about his two halves, Rorschach and Walter. They are two very distinct personalities that behave very differently, but Walter became Rorschach through his childhood experiences.

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  36. Mari asked Ethan a question to promote conversation

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  37. Mari attempts to bring Ethan into the discussion and Katherine helps.

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  38. Katherine brings up that the doctor is starting to write like Rorschach

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  39. Katherine brings the conversation back to the original point

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  40. One of the group members invites another into the conversation by asking them a question.

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  41. Katherine brings up the dinner party.

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  42. The group has a few pauses in between topics.

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  43. Mari brings another point to the conversation

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  44. Mari specifically asked Ethan a question to involve more people in the conversation.

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  45. Mari changes the topic to Rorschach's admiration of the Comedian

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  46. Noah brings in another point that change the perspective

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  47. Mari dismisses Noah's point but Noah rebuts

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  48. The conversation changes again

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  49. Mari talks about the parallels between the remarks towards Rorschach as a child and in prison

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  50. Mari talks about the visual style of the novel in portraying noise when Rorschach walks through the cell block.

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  51. Most topics keep getting touched on

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  52. The group discusses how Walter changed into Rorschach over time

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  53. Change between child and adult things.

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  54. Mari brings up the fact that Rorschach was given the Rorschach test

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  55. Mari brings up the doing of the Rorschach test.

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  56. Mari talks about the foolishness of the psychoanalyst in thinking that he was curing Rorschach from the start.

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  57. Mari discusses how they gave the Rorschach tests to Rorschach.
    Annie brings up the color usage in the chapter.

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  58. Flashbacks tinted red, now is desaturated. It sets the mood. Annie, Hannah, Mari, and Katherine discuss is.

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  59. The group discusses how the color in the images ties into the story.

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  60. Katherine brings a strengthening point

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  61. Mari wonders if Malcolm is now scared of Rorschach.

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  62. Annie brings up the difference in saturation between images of memories and images of the present

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  63. Emilie breaks the silence that the group fell into by bringing up Rorschach's distaste for feminine things

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  64. Emilie jumps into the conversation during a pause.

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  65. Hannah brings up coping and how his view of his dad is one of his ways of coping

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  66. Emilie brings in another point she wants to talk about

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  67. Emilie brings up how he dislikes femininity.

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  68. Jay starts off with the case that made Walter Rorschach and how he felt connected to the case

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  69. Jay starts with how interesting it is that Rorschach tried to rescue the little girl and it was personal because the girl was abused.

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  70. They discuss how you have to think about the dog scene

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  71. Leif likes how the reader has to figure out that the dogs are eating a human bone, it doesn't just come out and say it.

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  72. Jay and Sam discuss the roots of Rorschach’s morals

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  73. Jay thinks that a lot of what motivates Rorschach is not wanting kids to have the same childhood as himself.

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  74. So far Jay has kind of been dominating the conversation

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  75. Jay believes Rorschach is motivated to make sure children do not go through what he went through as a child. Rudy brings up how Rorschach's purpose is different than most superheroes.

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  76. Ash thinks that maybe all the children Rorschach tried to save really symbolize him trying to save himself.

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  77. Sam believes that Rorschach may save people more out of compulsion than anything.

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  78. Thomasina makes her voice heard.

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  79. They are kind of jumping back and forth between a few topics

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  80. Rudy calls back to an idea from earlier in the circle to expand upon it.

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  81. Ben talks about how Rorschach's anger builds up until he becomes violent. Thomasina talks about a specific quote in the book about the reasoning of Rorschach becoming a vigilante.

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  82. Rudy points out the color connections

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  83. Rudy notices how the rorschach card starts as an off white color, but then slowly gets darker so that it becomes red. Rudy notices the connection between the colors and the angry transformation of Kovacs to Rorschach.

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  84. Jay brings back the timeline divergence thing

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  85. Jay switches to a different topic about how the reality within the book and real life history.

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  86. Jay makes predictions about the future of the world based on what is happening in the book.

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  87. Jay thinks the book is going to end with total nuclear destruction

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  88. Rudy and Jay talk about their predictions for the end of the book.

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  89. Rudy predicts that the world probably won't end and Dr. Manhattan will come back.

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  90. Lif brings up a fresh topic that hasn't been discussed yet.

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  91. Leif goes back to Ozymandius from the last chapter and how he thinks he’s working with the Russians

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  92. Sam compliments and builds on Lif's theory.

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  93. Lif decides to discuss Ozymandias from the last chapter. He speculates that Ozymandias is behind the killings of the retired superheroes.

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  94. Leif shifts the conversation to the attempted assasination of Ozymandias, and how he could be working with the Soviets.

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  95. Rudy gives his own theory based on Lif's.

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  96. Sam agrees with Leif's theory that Ozymandias might be the mastermind. Sam asks the group what they think the ending will be like.

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  97. Sam poses a question to the entire group.

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  98. Ash pushes Taylor to join the conversation

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  99. Taylor thinks the ending depends on Dr. Manhattan's choices.
    Ash thinks that all the superheroes will have a huge fight. Thomasina agrees because it would fit in with the idea of parodying the superhero genre.

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  100. Sam shifts the conversation to the murder of Kitty.

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  101. Sam speaks about a topic only very briefly touched upon in the last circle.

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  102. Rudy notices how the heroes are the negative ones.

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  103. Sam changes the subject to discuss more of the psychological stuff

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  104. As far as I know Thomasina has yet to talk

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