Watchmen: Socratic Circle, Chapters 11 & 12
Instructions:
Audience members: in
the comments section of this post, make thoughtful observations about
the conversation taking place in the "fishbowl." Good observations will
do the following:
- Identify when you agree/disagree with observations and specifically state why (ASR: Apt Specific Reference).
- Observe what specific group members did that helped to
- "propel" conversation forward,
- respond to their group members,
- and provide thoughtful observations.
Fishbowl members: students who do well in the "fishbowl" will do the following:
- Come to discussion prepared, having read and researched materials beforehand.
- Work with peers to promote a civil, democratic discussion, set clear goals, and establish individual roles.
- Propel conversations forward by posing and asking questions that probe reasoning and ask for evidence.
- Respond thoughtful to diverse perspectives, synthesize (combine) comments, claims, and evidence, resolve contradictions, and investigate meaning.
Lif talks about how his prediction was correct
ReplyDeleteLif starts out strong with an "I told you so"
ReplyDeleteLif opens by affirming that his prediction was right in that Ozymandias was the mastermind.
ReplyDeleteLif connects back to other Socratic circles
ReplyDeleteLif begins the discussion with "I told you so."
ReplyDeleteJay believes that Ozymandias is too hopeful and violence and war will continue with time.
ReplyDeleteJay begins the discussion of the reading
ReplyDeleteThey discuss how the attack on New York helped unite the world, at least for a short time
ReplyDeleteJay finds it unrealistic that all the warring countries would put down the arms once the "alien" is discovered.
ReplyDeleteEthan brings up an exact quote from the story and elaborates on its meaning.
ReplyDeleteEthan gives page numbers and quotes directly from the reading
ReplyDeleteVeidt cannot create a perfect utopia forever, even his hero Alexander the Great's perfect civilization fell apart after his death.
ReplyDeleteJay continues by bringing up aspects of chapters for discussion.
ReplyDeleteAsh and Ethan connect to the outside world
ReplyDeleteEthan brings up what Jon said about how "nothing ever ends." He theorizes that what Jon means is that the peace won't last forever.
ReplyDeleteAshlynne talks about how the ending reminded her of a utopia/cult.
ReplyDeleteEthan brings up a point about time and Jon
ReplyDeleteEthan makes a good point about how Ozymandius' peace won't last forever, and Ash elaborates with a real life connection about utopia failing
ReplyDeleteEthan continues the discussion with specific aspects of the book.
ReplyDeleteJay brings up the significance of the fight happening in the street.
ReplyDeleteJay also brings a point in the book and connects it to a real life example
ReplyDeleteJay gives his views on Ozymandias and Lif expands with his own viewpoint
ReplyDeleteJay thinks that Ozymandias is foolish to think that all conflict will be gotten rid of due to this one incident, seeing as how all conflicts do not go away.
ReplyDeleteSamantha talks about Veidt's God complex and how it hinders his plan.
ReplyDeleteSam continues discussion by asking questions
ReplyDeleteSam discusses Veidty's God complex.
ReplyDeleteSam wonders if a change like the one in Watchmen would be possible.
ReplyDeleteBen brings in the philosophical side of the topic and Samantha brings in other good points and builds on his comment
ReplyDeleteJay also brings another point to Bens original comment
ReplyDeleteJay predicts that if someone found out Ozymandias' plan, more problems would emerge.
ReplyDeleteJay believes that Veidt's plan will someday be found out and made public.
ReplyDeleteJay is talking about what will happen if Ozymandius is found out and he is forgetting Rorschach's journal but Sam does mention it
ReplyDeleteJay and Sam build off each other to help the discussion along
ReplyDeleteJay and Sam create a discussion about Veidt's actions.
ReplyDeleteJay points out that the possible publishing of Rorschach's journal would be the "counter" to Ozymanidas' plan. The event to do the event.
ReplyDeleteBen changes the subject and brings people who haven't spoken yet into the circle
ReplyDeleteBen changes the subject and asks the people that haven't been talking about their opinions on Jon leaving the galaxy
ReplyDeleteBen changes the subject and asks what the group thinks regarding Jon's decision to leave the galaxy and create humans.
ReplyDeleteBen allows those who havent spoken yet to talk
ReplyDeleteEthan thinks that Jon's choice parallels Ozymandias'.
ReplyDeleteBen asks a question to those who haven't talked as much to propel conversation.
ReplyDeleteEthan brings in a good point
ReplyDeleteJay is definitely dominating the conversation but tries to bring others in
ReplyDeleteBen tries to incorporate others in the group who have not spoken yet.
ReplyDeleteJay allows others to build on his idea
ReplyDeleteTaylor gives her own take on Jay's point
ReplyDeleteTaylor talks about Jon not actually going away from humans. She points out a specific quote and predicts that Jon is going to try and create a new human race.
ReplyDeleteBen extends Jay and Taylor's points
ReplyDeleteTaylor discusses Jon being a deity/god and how him walking on water connects to that. She also mentions that he isn't entirely done with humanity, just the humans of Earth
ReplyDeleteTaylor doesn't think that Jon is completely done with humans, he's just done with the ones on Earth.
ReplyDeleteShe also adds to the idea of Jon being a deity by pointing out there is a panel where he walks on water.
Ben lightens the conversation by making a joke
ReplyDeleteSamantha changes the topic to allow more conversation
ReplyDeleteSam asks questions to transition the circle to a new topic
ReplyDeleteSam asks whether the tech advancements that created Jon have anything to do with the technology of today.
ReplyDeleteSam asks questions to propel conversation and Ashlynne jumps in.
ReplyDeleteAsh makes a joke
ReplyDeleteAsh compares the Kardashians to Ozymandius
ReplyDeleteThomasina talks about the drastic color palette change in this section of the book.
ReplyDeleteThomassina brings up the contrast in color between the current and past chapters
ReplyDeleteThomasina starts off with the topic of the illustration colors and how they tie into the story.
ReplyDelete
ReplyDeleteTomasina starts out the conversation with a stylistic analysis of the books artwork in the last two chapters.
Katherine brings up that it's like the bloodstain
ReplyDeleteKatherine connects this to the blood stained pin that appears many times throughout this book. Hannah talks about how this zoom out is similar to the one in the beginning of the book and movie. Rudy cites specific examples.
ReplyDeleteThey begin the conversation with a discussion of the colors
ReplyDeleteRudy comments on the recurring sequential zoom-out stle that pos up in the book.
ReplyDeleteKatherine talks about the zooming out trend in the book, and how metaphorically it applies to the book. Seeing bits and pieces of the plan, then seeing Ozymandias's entire plan.
ReplyDeleteKatherine discusses the benefits of "zooming out" in different frames
ReplyDeleteKatherine brings up a connection between the narrative zooming out and the pictures zooming out. Annie elaborates.
ReplyDeleteMari and Katherine talk about the relevance of the comic
ReplyDeleteMari brings up the comic within the comic. Katherine questions its significance in the context of the chapter.
ReplyDeleteThe group discusses more about the illustrations throughout the story and how they really connect and help the book flow.
ReplyDeleteThe conversation shifts to an analysis of the Black Freighter comic-within-comic
ReplyDeleteMari talks about being confused by the ending of the comic within a comic, Rudy agrees. Katherine clears up confusion. Hannah talks about conflict throughout the novel, which was then all ended in this chapter (supposedly). Mari talks about how the fight being helped out by bystanders is similar to other nations trying to help America after the alien attack.
ReplyDeleteHannah brings up the connection with the couples fighting and the comic. Mari elaborates with a connection to Ozymandias' plan.
ReplyDeleteThe group discusses the fighting group of side characters in the end when the 'alien' appears
ReplyDeleteEmilie brings up the intense imagery connections during the scene with the fight and the monster,
ReplyDeleteThomasina brings up how some text juxtaposes a panel. "Utopia"
ReplyDeleteThomasina gets a strong vibe of death, terror, and decay in city being destroyed panel. Hannah finds it funny that the day the earth stood still was included.
ReplyDeleteHannah brings up the irony of "the day the earth stood still"
ReplyDeleteNoah brings up some irony in where the monster came.
ReplyDeleteHannah brings up the bright coloration.
Mari tells her interpretation of it.
While the first group seemed to discuss the larger plot events, the second group seems to be more focused on the smaller details. This helps discover some subtle yet important ideas.
ReplyDeleteNoah mentions that the monster crashed through the institute for spatial studies, which is rather ironic. Hannah mentions that the panelling is brightest here, and catches the eye. Mari mentions that it might be saying that even though everyone is dead in New York, there are still things that will happen, and humanity will go on.
ReplyDeleteEmilie brings up how the coloration sections off Jon
ReplyDeleteKatherine guides people to a page with an interesting text.
ReplyDeleteAnnie brings up the theme of the book, how it's not traditional superheros.
Katherine realizes that on page 384, there's a poster that says Kristallnacht, the night of broken glass. THis is similar to how New York was killed/destroyed in the book by Ozymandias. Annie mentions that the ending is evocative of how these superheroes are not traditional.
ReplyDeleteAnnie brings up the recurring theme of "not your grampa's superheros"
ReplyDeleteThe conversation puts a big focus on the artwork and how it affects the story.
ReplyDeleteThe group discusses the complexity of the ending
ReplyDeleteMari brings up that the end isn't horrible and then transitions to Rorchach's death.
ReplyDeleteNoah defends the death.
Mari says that the ending is uncertain, but not damning to a specific fate. Mari talks about Rorschach's death and how it felt like the author didn't know how to write it. However, Noah says that his odd moral code makes him obligated to tell people, and to prevent him from telling people what truly happened, he had to be killed. Thomasina said that when he died, he took his mask off, symbolizing that both his personalities died. Or maybe, Annie says, even though Kovacs will die, Rorschach will live on in his journal.
ReplyDeleteThomasina brings up that he took his mask off to die.
ReplyDeleteAnnie mentions that maybe he doesn't think Rorschach will die, because the journal is out there.
Hannah is confused as to why Jon would bother killing Rorschach.
Annie makes a strong point of how Rorschach takes off his mask to show that he as a physical being will die but his message will carry on.
ReplyDeleteThey discuss Rorschach's death and why it had to happen
ReplyDeleteMari brings up the underwhelming death of Rorschach
ReplyDelete